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	<title>Comments on: The Baby and the Bath Water</title>
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	<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/</link>
	<description>A raucous public discussion of the publishing revolution.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Barry</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have to agree with Michael Jensen that the interface used by the U of Pittsburgh digital library is clunky and makes actually reading a text online a serious challenge. (As a former librarian who specialized in digital libraries, I the decision to use that system was based on its lack of user friendly features). So, it actually might promote sales of the print book. 

Indeed, perhaps this approach could even drive sales of e-books, e.g., the full book in an easy-to-view PDF. 

I have to point out that down here in Argentina, I'm more than glad to buy an academic e-book since the print version likely will never make it through the international mail or may take months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Michael Jensen that the interface used by the U of Pittsburgh digital library is clunky and makes actually reading a text online a serious challenge. (As a former librarian who specialized in digital libraries, I the decision to use that system was based on its lack of user friendly features). So, it actually might promote sales of the print book. </p>
<p>Indeed, perhaps this approach could even drive sales of e-books, e.g., the full book in an easy-to-view PDF. </p>
<p>I have to point out that down here in Argentina, I&#8217;m more than glad to buy an academic e-book since the print version likely will never make it through the international mail or may take months.</p>
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		<title>By: Publishing Frontier &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A reader&#8217;s delight</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Publishing Frontier &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A reader&#8217;s delight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-49</guid>
		<description>[...] The Baby and the Bath Water  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Baby and the Bath Water  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Joe, thanks for the kind words about the National Academies Press site. We keep learning things through it, and I'll try to report on some of those over the next few months.

It's worth going and taking a look at the Pittsburgh digital library site. It's hardly a threat to immersive reading, with an interface only a librarian would love. Looks to me like it's optimal only for browsing, sampling, tasting. 

It took a lot of work to get to the books themselves; I had to browse hard before finally getting to &lt;a href="http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/text-idx?c=pittpress;cc=pittpress;q1=village;idno=31735055592400;view=toc" rel="nofollow"&gt;a book&lt;/a&gt; -- and note that the Contents are "below the fold," nearly invisible. The presentation is page scans, not XML or HTML, so it won't work well with handheld readers.

The URLs are hideous, navigation tremendously clumsy -- it's an advertisement for the "non-optimal interface" that I've written about elsewhere, that promotes the "real" interface that the work was written for -- the book.

Overall I'm more heartened by this project than see it as the beginning of the end. Latin American Studies monographs -- heck, even most scholarly monographs -- don't sell well enough to justify or allow significant marketing and promotion efforts. A few hundred to 800 copies is about all the market seems to bear these days. The best promotion of the book is the book itself.

I'm also heartened to see strong university/library/press relations -- academic publishing is undergoing huge transformations, and having skilled publishers on staff, striving to make public the fruits of scholarship, is exactly the mission most presses were founded to manifest. University presses need more support-in-kind from their institutions.

For university presses, this model, tiptoe-y as it is, makes sense to me. For other publishers, the Google Book Search approach may be better. But regardless, getting their books visible, link-to-able, and socially promotable, seems to me the only way small-market publications can find their audiences -- which will be much larger than they could ever get with print only.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, thanks for the kind words about the National Academies Press site. We keep learning things through it, and I&#8217;ll try to report on some of those over the next few months.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth going and taking a look at the Pittsburgh digital library site. It&#8217;s hardly a threat to immersive reading, with an interface only a librarian would love. Looks to me like it&#8217;s optimal only for browsing, sampling, tasting. </p>
<p>It took a lot of work to get to the books themselves; I had to browse hard before finally getting to <a href="http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/text-idx?c=pittpress;cc=pittpress;q1=village;idno=31735055592400;view=toc" rel="nofollow">a book</a> &#8212; and note that the Contents are &#8220;below the fold,&#8221; nearly invisible. The presentation is page scans, not XML or HTML, so it won&#8217;t work well with handheld readers.</p>
<p>The URLs are hideous, navigation tremendously clumsy &#8212; it&#8217;s an advertisement for the &#8220;non-optimal interface&#8221; that I&#8217;ve written about elsewhere, that promotes the &#8220;real&#8221; interface that the work was written for &#8212; the book.</p>
<p>Overall I&#8217;m more heartened by this project than see it as the beginning of the end. Latin American Studies monographs &#8212; heck, even most scholarly monographs &#8212; don&#8217;t sell well enough to justify or allow significant marketing and promotion efforts. A few hundred to 800 copies is about all the market seems to bear these days. The best promotion of the book is the book itself.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also heartened to see strong university/library/press relations &#8212; academic publishing is undergoing huge transformations, and having skilled publishers on staff, striving to make public the fruits of scholarship, is exactly the mission most presses were founded to manifest. University presses need more support-in-kind from their institutions.</p>
<p>For university presses, this model, tiptoe-y as it is, makes sense to me. For other publishers, the Google Book Search approach may be better. But regardless, getting their books visible, link-to-able, and socially promotable, seems to me the only way small-market publications can find their audiences &#8212; which will be much larger than they could ever get with print only.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph J. Esposito</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph J. Esposito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>An update to the original post:  Actually, the situation at Pittsburgh is even worse than I thought.  It turns out that ALL new books will be put into the open access program two years after publication.  This means that if and when the time comes when people read texts from ebook readers instead of in hardcopy or sampling them online, Pittsburgh will have literally zero revenue from its backlist.  Better raise that college tuition because somebody will have to pay for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An update to the original post:  Actually, the situation at Pittsburgh is even worse than I thought.  It turns out that ALL new books will be put into the open access program two years after publication.  This means that if and when the time comes when people read texts from ebook readers instead of in hardcopy or sampling them online, Pittsburgh will have literally zero revenue from its backlist.  Better raise that college tuition because somebody will have to pay for this.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mark Ockerbloom</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mark Ockerbloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure when Joe looked at the AAUP newsletter, but right now the page he links to *doesn't* say the Press will make the entire backlist available online, but "selected backlist titles".  Which would seem to undermine the basis for his argument, as they *are* giving themselves the flexibility to decide when it makes sense to put a particular title online for free, and when it doesn't.

If the AAUP newsletter did change, it would appear to be a correction on the AAUP's part, rather than a reconsideration on Pittsburgh's.  The U-Pittsburgh Press' own press release (which is easily found on their site) says "Ultimately, *most* of the Press’ titles over two years old will be provided through this open access
platform."  (Emphasis added.)  I can find contemporary quotes from this in various blogs, so it's doubtful that this was changed after the fact.

As we in libraries often recommend, going to the original source, rather than relying on secondhand sources, can often save you a lot of time and trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure when Joe looked at the AAUP newsletter, but right now the page he links to *doesn&#8217;t* say the Press will make the entire backlist available online, but &#8220;selected backlist titles&#8221;.  Which would seem to undermine the basis for his argument, as they *are* giving themselves the flexibility to decide when it makes sense to put a particular title online for free, and when it doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>If the AAUP newsletter did change, it would appear to be a correction on the AAUP&#8217;s part, rather than a reconsideration on Pittsburgh&#8217;s.  The U-Pittsburgh Press&#8217; own press release (which is easily found on their site) says &#8220;Ultimately, *most* of the Press’ titles over two years old will be provided through this open access<br />
platform.&#8221;  (Emphasis added.)  I can find contemporary quotes from this in various blogs, so it&#8217;s doubtful that this was changed after the fact.</p>
<p>As we in libraries often recommend, going to the original source, rather than relying on secondhand sources, can often save you a lot of time and trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Shatzkin</title>
		<link>http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Shatzkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pubfrontier.com/2008/01/15/the-baby-and-the-bath-water/#comment-39</guid>
		<description>This piece, to me, highlights that consumer book publishing and academic book publishing are very different businesses. I am quite certain that if a trade publisher -- Harper or Random House -- did what is being suggested here that they would see an across-the-board sales lift. But, of course, their books are mostly meant to be enjoyed as start-to-finish reads. One presumes that is not the case in the marketing of academic backlist.

I have a standing challenge to consumer publishers to be told of just ONE book where excessive availability of free text online could be shown to have injured book sales. In a world where -- even WITH the Kindle -- we can't persuade people to consume the product on screens, it would seem you'd win much more through discovery than you'd lose in cannibalization. Nobody's shown me that book yet. Clearly, Michael Jensen would know of some examples from his world that would meet my challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This piece, to me, highlights that consumer book publishing and academic book publishing are very different businesses. I am quite certain that if a trade publisher &#8212; Harper or Random House &#8212; did what is being suggested here that they would see an across-the-board sales lift. But, of course, their books are mostly meant to be enjoyed as start-to-finish reads. One presumes that is not the case in the marketing of academic backlist.</p>
<p>I have a standing challenge to consumer publishers to be told of just ONE book where excessive availability of free text online could be shown to have injured book sales. In a world where &#8212; even WITH the Kindle &#8212; we can&#8217;t persuade people to consume the product on screens, it would seem you&#8217;d win much more through discovery than you&#8217;d lose in cannibalization. Nobody&#8217;s shown me that book yet. Clearly, Michael Jensen would know of some examples from his world that would meet my challenge.</p>
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